mastodon.social is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
The original server operated by the Mastodon gGmbH non-profit

Administered by:

Server stats:

329K
active users

Cat Hicks

I used to social partner dance a lot. In partner dancing, because it's a physical hobby, boundaries matter a lot. One night, I was dancing out at a jam in Seattle and the man who'd asked me to dance kept leading in a really dangerous, uncontrolled way. Typical of people who lead in dancing with a lot of strength but not a lot of technique -- twisted my body in ways I didn't like, wasn't responsive to the obvious weight shifting I was doing to counteract it, so I said, "Stop doing that move."

He smiled, and said "oh it's ok," and tried it again. So I stopped dead on the floor and turned my back on him and walked away.

If you don't dance....this is *shocking* to do. It's a really, really social hobby, there are heavy social norms to be nice to everyone, you're constantly dancing with strangers...people will finish dances at any cost. So he was shocked & ran after me apologizing and I was totally nice but I said, "Listen, we already talked, I don't want to talk anymore."

Sometimes I tell that story to new dancers because I think it's important. One of the biggest things about social partner dancing is that it creates a lot of connection between people and can be profoundly healing and comforting for people because of that. But the counterweight, which is necessary, is that you cannot let those things warp you into a sense of obligation to stay in situations and interactions that cross your lines. I feel safe dancing because I KNOW *I* will take care of myself.

Anyway, one of my superpowers on social media is that sometimes I clear out my notifications without ever reading them!

Even if it's full of people I like and wish well! We are all in relationships, and yet, at the same time, we owe each other nothing. It is this balance that lets us truly be there for each other. I will probably be taking this approach often these days.

You can always just walk off the floor.

@grimalkina Makes me remember (a) how difficult good leading can be, (b) the ongoing, mostly nonverbal consent communication happening in social dance, and (c) that I need to get out and dance more.

@DarrinLRogers leading IS really hard (I also lead)! Indeed so much important consent communication happening in tension and countertension!

@grimalkina Yes, indeed! I can't follow because I haven't learned (first unwritten lesson of leading: you can't lead someone who doesn't know how to follow; I am that person). A lot of women I've known in social dance groups can lead and follow, seeming due to the numbers: there were always more women than men in social dance clubs.

@grimalkina I used to do swing and blues pre-pandemic. It was such a lovely community (with rare exceptions) and I really appreciated the focus on consent and two-way communication.

@elplatt same!! I really miss it. Also did a lot of fusion and some west coast swing

@grimalkina

The power of knowing a situation is wrong for you, trusting that feeling and then asserting yourself? ✨✨✨

@grimalkina I'm not a dancer, but isn't dancing supposed to be a team effort rather than a leader/follower type of thing?

@martinlentink many dance forms have an explicit lead and follow, and this one did. I dance both lead and follow but in this particular dance I was following.

@grimalkina @martinlentink Isn't these strict leader/follower roles a power dynamic? The whole thing looks a little like a power dynamic for a layman

(Asking as a complete outsider in this subject, I wouldn't be able to dance to save my life.😅)

@gmgall @martinlentink there's plenty of debate & strong opinions & philosophies on this across dance communities!! Especially for queer dancers and dancers who like to lead and follow like me :). Obviously there are historical conventions that have baked in a lot of gender roles and social norms in this. Modern, and progressive dance communities that are trying to think about more inclusive mindsets will often emphasize the critical two way communication even in the most structured dance roles

@gmgall @martinlentink I gravitate toward dance communities and dance forms that are less conservative, but dance has BOTH radical *and* conventional/conservative histories, so there's a lot that goes into what people get taught and their expectations. However the way I was taught and like to dance, leading and following are dynamic choices rather than fixed roles of people, like an agreement between you about the dance you'll create, plus people usually are just way more comfortable w/one side

@gmgall @martinlentink it's also worth noting that any physical sport that's partnered has its ways of emphasizing communication around risk and the gravity of violating that. For example, I've (rarely) also done some partnered stuff in circus arts where if you are the base for someone else and you DON'T listen to them you can get banned from a studio forever. Ignoring, minimizing or trying to bully the partner who's at more physical risk into being comfortable with something is a real violation

@grimalkina @martinlentink Thanks for the detailed response.

The way I used to see the hobby was like "people who like dancing go to a ballroom¹ and eventually dance together". I now get there is a lot more discussions and considerations than I used to think there was.

¹ studio? Is this the correct word? English isn't my first language.

@grimalkina @martinlentink I suppose only experience dancers can lead responsibility. Do I get this correctly?

@gmgall @grimalkina @martinlentink It sounds like that but it’s actually not :)

Rather than a control / submit dynamic, think of it more like call and response. Leading is a suggestion, and it’s up to a follower to interpret that however they’d like

In fact, some dances are even moving away from lead and follow if they’re sufficiently dynamic because it doesn’t necessarily capture the dynamic essence (de-gendered square dancing is an example)

@hazelweakly @gmgall @martinlentink perfect reframing.

I have a dear friend who is in a queer tango community and their clashes with some of the....shall we say "old school".... People in the tango communities here are fairly epic

@grimalkina @hazelweakly @martinlentink Are we talking Strictly Ballroom levels of epic, here?

@hazelweakly @gmgall @grimalkina @martinlentink yeah, contradance too: I haven't danced since 2019 but it had started a pretty solid movement toward Larks and Robins (left and right) instead of Gents and Ladies.

And even when the roles were (named for) genders... when starting contra in my late 20s (and just one role was complicated enough to learn at a time), I have vivid memories of being muscled into the right direction by 13-15-year-old girls who'd been doing it since they were little and clearly thought they were doing their bit to be welcoming to beginners but also the bored teenager "pay attention, chump, you're supposed to be going *that* way" attitude stuck out a mile... always makes me chuckle, looking back.

So yeah, in some dance forms it's much more just the asymmetric positions in the figures rather than leading/following

@hazelweakly @grimalkina @martinlentink But if it more like a suggestion, how leaders and followers aren't bumping each other constantly? 😅 There are no guarantees the parties will do what needs to be done, are there?

@gmgall @grimalkina @martinlentink It works the same way conversation does. There's no rule that you have to take turns when you talk and you can totally have a chill turn based conversation or a more chaotic interruption driven one, but regardless, most every time the conversation flows pretty naturally because humans are good at calibrating fuzzy things like that :)

@martinlentink I think @grimalkina illustrates quite well that it should be both.