@wackJackle @EUCommission You were faster, because that were the exact first words that came to my mind!
Dear comission, go fuck yourself!
@joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Have you lived under a rock for the last 15+ years and haven't seen what the EU commission normally stands for in all this time but suddenly there's money? Second: It's the EU commission, they have no power to give 820 billion euros to the military industrial complex so what the fuck is she talking about?
@wackJackle @joaocosta @EUCommission it‘s von der Leyen. She sure has many friends at Rhein Metal
Sorry guys, you lost me there. Why is unlocking funds and loans to urgently investing in defence a bad thing when the US has turned soviet and the russians are at our gate armed to their teeth?
@joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Because it contradicts everything they did over the last 15+ years. For some reason they seem to think the climate catastrophe or poverty don't need this. Furthermore it's the EU Commission which cannot do this. Please elaborate where this unlocking of funds and loans should happen?
What did the EU Commission as part of the famous Troika do in Greece? Don't you all remember? They can go fuck themself all day long!
It's still a fact that we have a fascist country with wet imperial dreams standing at our Eastern flank while armed to the teeth, grinding its way through Ukraine, so something has to be done one way or another.
You're right, however, that they should disown the rich and wealthy to fund this and also work on other issues like poverty and climate protection at the same time. But you really cannot expect that to happen, seeing how most of the EU members states are plutocracies where money nobility calls the shots.
@TobiWanKenobi @joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission That's my point. Exactly. I don't argue against some military spending but I won't publicly argue for them because I will never go to war for these capitalist bourgeois nation states myself, so I certainly won't say publicly that I think it's good if others have to do it. That would be shameless. So that's that.
@wackJackle @TobiWanKenobi @joaocosta @EUCommission this.
Also. Russia is making no real progress in Ukraine so I doubt they can invade someone else right now.
That does not mean I’m against giving Ukraine the weapons they need.
@jnfrd @TobiWanKenobi @joaocosta @EUCommission And everybody should have a look on the topographical map of Europe again. I could tell you something about all of this.
Ukraine is stopping russian advances because they have been fighting them since 2014, and have an army of 800,000 soldiers, massive innovative defence industry producing millions of drones, missiles, robots etc, deliveries from 50 different countries, and a strong president, a united parliament and society willing to sacrifice themselves for their children's freedom.
Most countries in Europe have none of that, are weak and would fall. Wake up.
@joaocosta they have a different threat model than the rest of the EU. @jnfrd @wackJackle @TobiWanKenobi @EUCommission
@justin
That's right. But threat models won't stop an attack when is upon us. Only hard power will. And that's why we need to get the European defence at a level that matches the threat we face. All we have to do is look at the numbers in this war to realise how far behind and unprepared we are. The very fact that heavily sanctioned, isolated North Korea can produce and supply more ammo to russia than the whole of NATO combined should wake us up.
@joaocosta @jnfrd @wackJackle @EUCommission it's weird right? Why all this animosity in this matter?
It's like some people are not happy to see Europe standing up for itself against bad actors. How weird indeed...
@meliante @joaocosta @jnfrd @wackJackle @EUCommission I guess some people want Eastern Europe back under Russia's influence.
We could try asking Russia nicely to stop, but I don't think they'll listen.
Even if we say "peace" a lot.....
@Lazarou @meliante @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission it may have occurred to you that Putin did not manage to invade Ukraine, a single country that is not part of the Nato.
But he managed to sabotage nearly every western county, eg by sponsoring the AFD. I’m not afraid of his army of tanks. More of his army of trolls and the inertial of the eu to fight that.
I see. Perhaps we have different ways of pushing the agenda we want to see. The EU has failed on climate action, social investment, divesting from russian fuels, Troika corruption, etc but did one right thing today, and that makes me want to support them in that one right decision. Otherwise it sounds like you don't support investing in defence, when you actually do but also want investment in all those other things. Up to you, of course. 
@joaocosta @jnfrd @Lazarou @meliante @wackJackle @EUCommission
In Italy we say "Anche l'orologio guasto segna l'ora giusta due vole al giorno"
"Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day".
EU institutions are the broken one. EU will cut welfare expenditures and stop climate programs to subsidize war industry and automotive industries who partially convert to military. This is simply unaccettable and anti-democratic.
@grad @joaocosta @Lazarou @meliante @wackJackle @EUCommission yep. And I guess that the current amount we spend would be more then enough if better coordinated.
@jnfrd @joaocosta @Lazarou @meliante @wackJackle @EUCommission
Exactly.
The Italian media aligned with NATO and the EU have been misinforming in recent days by presenting a report with data from the IISS ‘The International Institute for Strategic Studies’ in which it was said that the EU spends far less on military defence than Russia and therefore much more needs to be spent. But one of Italy's leading universities conducted an analysis reporting the true and certified data, refuting... 1/2
@jnfrd @joaocosta @Lazarou @meliante @wackJackle @EUCommission
those of IISS, which shows instead that EU already spends 58% more than Russia on defence. The authors of the study asked the media to publish the correction, but no newspaper did so.
Here the link: https://osservatoriocpi.unicatt.it/ocpi-pubblicazioni-facciamo-chiarezza-nel-2024-la-spesa-militare-europea-eccedeva-quella-russa-del-58
@grad @jnfrd @joaocosta @Lazarou @meliante @EUCommission 'The authors of the study asked the media to publish the correction, but no newspaper did so.'
That's something. I wonder why...
@wackJackle @jnfrd @joaocosta @Lazarou @meliante @EUCommission
yep...
not a surprise.
In RSF's World Press Freedom Index 2024, Italy is 49th
@jnfrd @Lazarou @meliante @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission and actually arming Europe with the current lean towards right is not a good thing in general. But hard to defend ourselves without weapons.
@joaocosta @jnfrd @wackJackle @EUCommission
That's the far left.
For knowing europeans there is no doubt to compense US military and support Ukraine.
A pacifistic Europe will not last long. The good news is that people at arms will defend Them at all.
For the middle you need to keep track on right and left side.
@pascal_f @meliante @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission The ‘middle’ is a non-concept. It’s utterly meaningless.
There are no good news in a war between the NATO (or what's left of it) and Russia. It’ll be the definite end of this continent.
@jnfrd @pascal_f @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission it only takes one to start a war. Are you saying we shouldn't fight back?
Because you're either saying that or that we shouldn't provoke anything and behave, which is exactly what Ukraine did...
@meliante @pascal_f @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission. Did Putin attack the NATO?
@jnfrd @pascal_f @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission NATO as we know it is gone.
We're talking about Europe here. And seeing as the USA just turned red, Europe needs to arm itself and we need to rely on ourselves alone.
@meliante @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission
I've done the same when 5 bullies attack someone on the streets, no matter if the greet me and would never harm me.
And we talk about close NATO members frightenend to be next.
And in this scenario there are 26 people saying no to bullies. And to be clear these bullies already attacked and robbed us (even if not personnally)
@meliante @joaocosta @wackJackle @EUCommission
Military's first use is self defending.
There are far more steps for charging and conquering.
In this arguing one will not find a base. You prefer weapons or not. A half military investment is nonsense.
@joaocosta @jnfrd @wackJackle @EUCommission #EU is not perfect, but your views are very simplistic. #Germany under Merkel had a key role back then with Greece and the cause of problems in the first place was corruption by a party that is now still in power in Greece. Regarding #AfD - yes #Putin amplified them, but #Germans should have been louder when #Pegida started and maybe there wouldn’t be a nazi problem now.
@ashtime @joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Well, I mostly agree. Austerity is a problem also in Germany and now picture what they're gonna tell you what follows afterwards we spent our future money on weapons.
@wackJackle @joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Well I expect they will, however we should be more active politically and vote and demand better things, propose solutions. From experience I can say that starting in your local area is the best way forward. We can demand change and organize, not wait to be gaslighted.
@ashtime @joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Yes, we should do that while also expecting to change nothing in the broader spectrum of thinking because right now we have to defend this little room which is worth fighting for and they're all attacking this room right now.
@wackJackle @joaocosta @jnfrd @EUCommission Yeah, I know it’s depressing, but we should not give up on doing something - we can lead two fights - to keep us safe and to define what our society will look like - it somehow goes together. You do not only defend a room, space, land , but also the mind and ideas. The times we are in are maybe the best to kickstart changes that we want to see - at least plant the seeds and nurture them.
@joaocosta @jnfrd @wackJackle @EUCommission You are entitled to your frustration and opinion - I agree with you #EU should be much better. However #EU includes 12 countries that endured #dictatorships until 1989, 10 that were controlled by the Soviet Union, 3 colonised and occupied by #Russians and 1 that survived #genocide in early ‘90s - so the concern and worry about the current geopolitical situation is real for many people.
@wackJackle what do you expect by von der Leyen? She is awful and was always awful.
But at least this time she is right. Russia is a real threat because Putin won't stop with Ukraine. He wants it all and he will get help from his buddies over the pond. I bet it won't take muhc longer for Donald and Putin to strike a weapons deal.