@j cc @LuigiEsq

@Gargron @j @LuigiEsq Licenses with ethical/morality clauses are very hard to enforce, due in part to issues with legal definition and interpretation (esp. across jurisdictions). JSON license "do no evil" clause is the most prominent example, but there are others.

Licenses will not help resolve this problem, which must be solved by the mechanisms most Mastodon instances (and maston.social, joinmastodon.org, and Mastodon client apps) are now using... 1/2

@Gargron @j @LuigiEsq Moderation, instance blocks, ToS, and policies (Server Covenant etc.) are effective, and will need to be done anyway.

Enforcement of copyleft license terms (GPL, AGPL, CC BY-SA etc.) is already extremely hard and requires money and legal resources.

License proliferation (e.g. not choosing AGPL for Mastodon) only causes friction for FOSS collaboration. It hurts devs and makes a mess that is difficult to clean up... which will only harm the Fediverse and limit use. 2/2

@diggity @j @LuigiEsq I agree in the sense that if someone violates AGPLv3 there are multiple established institutions willing to defend it which a custom license does not benefit from

I think I've also mentioned elsewhere in the thread that re-licensing Mastodon is practically very hard due to no CLA and about 600 contributors

@Gargron @j @LuigiEsq Yep. I got to this thread late but we're all in agreement.

I just *really* would hate to see a new license for Mastodon, it has been very successful under AGPL and will continue to be.

Historically, Gab will be a blip on the Mastodon radar... they may not even make the codebase switch. The devs are obviously sloppy AF and now that client apps like Tusky, Sengi etc will block their instance (rickrolling too!), Masto won't solve the primary problem Gab thought it would.

@j @Gargron You could do that, but then it would not be FOSS :(

@j

Completely feasible, and easy. Just insert the (completely subjective) line...

But it wouldn't be a free license as per #RMS, the #OSI, or the #FSF:
https://opensource.org/licenses

#tallship #FOSS #OpenSource

@Gargron @OpenSource @chucknorrisfacts @starwall

⛵

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@inditoot @Gargron I don't see anything wrong with what he says. If people don't want to federate with them, let them choose not to

@inditoot all the nuance is in the IF

@marsxyz @Gargron

A reason behind "freeze peach" as you put it, is to protect minority and controversial views from persecution. It is easily the same principle that protects any of your own fringe beliefs.

But roll your own, you're essentially monarch of your instance.

@licho that's true. I am the one responsible for my instance.

@inditoot @marsxyz @Gargron blocking is a feature of this website I enjoy using. For example, I’m going to block you :)

@inditoot @marsxyz @Gargron
I think he is talking about blocking the domains if play store/app store decide to get rid of gab

@BadAtNames @inditoot@inditoot.com @marsxyz @Gargron just for the context, inditoot is an Indian version of Gab, a right wing platform and already in blocklist of some instances. That is why they are worrying about this

@inditoot @marsxyz @Gargron

who gives a shit if Nazis have a platform? why the fuck is everybody suddenly from the NPEA* lately

* Nazi Platform Enforcement Agency

@marsxyz @inditoot @Gargron @marsxyz hence why we need to raise awareness

@inditoot @Gargron how so?

@inditoot @pinkprius @Gargron App stores will block you for gab's content, it is 100% fair to warn people of this. And I am an app developer, and I WILL be blocking gab, because I 100% do not want to support white supremacy and hatred.

And neither should you.

@inditoot @pinkprius Not making the effort to oppose hatred means supporting hatred.

@inditoot @pinkprius No. No, we absolutely can't. We can not put "politics" aside when that politics is causing innocent people to be murdered, and people's basic rights to be violated.

No. No, we can't put "politics" aside. Doing so means approving of that hatred and murder. And it makes you complicit.

So no. We can't.

@WAHa_06x36
Agreed. Democide was the number one killer of people last century. If you have statists on your instance, I'm banning.
@pinkprius @inditoot

@bigl0af @inditoot @WAHa_06x36 you have every right to ban whoever you like, that's the whole point

@WAHa_06x36 @inditoot @pinkprius I find it amazing that people use the fediverse in complete ignorance that mastodon was *set up precisely because twitter is a fucking paradox of tolerance' if I'm being generous - binfire*

@inditoot @WAHa_06x36 thanks for wanting to help but we are doing fine without you interfering.

@inditoot @WAHa_06x36 @pinkprius

> Can we put politics and software aside.

after the Nazis are deplatformed globally, sure! but they want to kill me, and you, so, um, no. sorry.

if you want to go talk to Nazis and try to fix them, feel free. seems like you're working on the wrong problem here!

marketplace of ideas as long as you want at some Nazis and let everybody know how it went 🤣

@inditoot @WAHa_06x36 @Gargron people are building these apps in their free time, and you are crying that they don't want gab people to use these good apps 😏😃😆

@WAHa_06x36
What's your app? I need to know which one to avoid on principle. Block my instance too please...I don't want it associated with your shitlord app
@Gargron @pinkprius @inditoot

@WAHa_06x36 @Gargron @pinkprius @inditoot Maybe you should block instances where people say bad things about white people as well then?

@vogel @Gargron @inditoot @WAHa_06x36
you do you

@WAHa_06x36 @Gargron @pinkprius @inditoot If you were a web browser developer would you blacklist sites you don't like in your app? Think about where this is leading.

@inditoot @pinkprius @Gargron it's always ethical to deplatform and block nazis, fuck you

@inditoot @Gargron

whereas forgetting the paradox of tolerance entirely is a sign of vast maturity and no doubt endless wisdom 🤣 please, tell us another one

@inditoot @Gargron

you do realize one of the biggest appeals of mastodon to a lot of people is the "no nazis" part right?

@Gargron Mastodon and ActivityPub open them up to a bigger audience. So, I imagine they'd be happy. Regardless if other instances ban them or not, this is how FB, Twitter and Youtube are making money, supporting the controversy because it gets more clicks. Not everyone will ban them and waves of drama will ensue.

@sikkdays @Gargron They’re not coming for the audience. Gab already has one. They’re coming for the protocols and tools. Gab isn’t in this to be a Twitter clone for the rest of her life.

@Gargron only if your work is free :) but yeah, they wasted a lot of $$$

@lain It's true that my work isn't free, but Gab gets the results of my work for free, so their investors' money didn't go to the development of their platform (or did, but got wasted--bad either way)

@Gargron @lain i don’t see that bad, firstly our Toots will be available to all Gab users, About 850000 members so our instances can be a trojan horse inside gab. Also there’ll be a lot of publicity around mastodon, and probably a lot of media coverage about fediverse and mastodon creator that will condamn the use of its software, bla bla bla...
so a lot new instances will be created, some band but a lot good, and for sure fediverse will be a lot bigger

@filippodb @Gargron @lain I guess the concern will be the unsavory nature of much of Gab's content then being associated with Mastodon. I honestly tried to engage with folk on Gan once, sought to understand their beliefs & worries. The torrent of abuse I got followed me off Gab and onto twitter. It's a terrible community. I don't think they should be silenced (that's a whole different matter) but I get the concerns of reputational damage by association.

@wiredfire
I just want to say I wasn't up to date with all things concerning Gab, so thank you guys for having this conversation!
@filippodb @Gargron @lain

@Gargron honestly my favourite is how their people clearly _do not understand anything on a technical level_ about mastodon (exhibit A: "we won't offer federation but of course apps that support it would" https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1133945078534299650 , exhibit B: the guy, in their blog post, clearly not understanding that the activitypub c2s protocol is not mastodons API)

@halcy @Gargron I don’t think he’s talking about c2s.