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Randahl Fink

If any German needed an argument for voting in the coming general election, look at this fact:

In the US, Trump won with the support of just 75 million votes in a country with 335 million citizens. In other words, just 22 percent of the US citizens decided to drive the country off a cliff, and everyone else is now going down with them.

Wer nicht wählt, ist Mitläufer.

@randahl Man… idk. The FDP, the party that just exited, is barely holding on at around 5%.

So basically, with only 4 million votes out of 81 million people in the country, a minority party ended up destabilizing the current government. (Including the mess they made in the EU)

@obrhoff @randahl

Denkfehlerwarnung:

5 % derjenigen, die tatsächlich gewählt haben ( << 0,05 * 81 Millionen).

@obrhoff @randahl This is a second great reason to vote: every vote for any party but the #FDP is a vote to make sure they stay under 5% and have to leave the Bundestag.

@randahl Unfortunately the ones who couldn't be bothered to vote did that too. Does anyone know the percentage yet?

@davidpnice @randahl

Regardless of if you like or dislike Kamala Harris, she was very clear that the election was a choice, those who didn't bother to vote surely can't complain as to the outcome of the election, a vote for an independent candiate is to reject the main parties. While this could be argued it hands the win to a particular side, it does show up that x percent have simply rejected the other two choices.

@zleap @randahl Anyone who by not voting rejected a clear choice between service and self, a competent prosecutor versus a convicted criminal, is simply despicable.

@davidpnice @zleap @randahl I think you're both right unfortunately. And now, I have no faith in the democratic party whatsoever. To me and what I read and saw, she was good except wouldn't just lock down on ending fracking and ending genocide. Two pretty significant things... I'll run in the next election if I need to, but of course I've got several orders of magnitude less financially.

@MisterMultiverse @zleap @randahl Keep at least some faith in it - the only decent political institution the USA has left. And remember that in an eloquent address Bernie Sanders explained why, in spite of spinelessness on Palestine, Harris had to be supported.

@davidpnice @zleap @randahl just sharing my thoughts, and I appreciate yours.
I love and agreed with Bernie then and now. And I would certainly have voted for him.
However the arguments are still strong -- the best we had was still in favor of death, just not as much.
And simply, she couldn't pull off a win.
We need better than we have now.
I suppose 'local' is the best we can do for now. I hope it is enough.

@MisterMultiverse @zleap @randahl I don't believe for a minute she was 'in favor of death'. She was appalled, but still couldn't be strong enough. I'm happy to focus on so many Democrats still doing brilliant work, like AOC. But the party has to change.

@MisterMultiverse In America, the greatest number of voters are non-voters. 1/3 third of us do not vote. And tiny percentage margins are a fact of life in low-participatory elections. And that’s exactly how America ended up in the pickle we’re currently in. The trump-Harris election wasn’t a blowout like Reagan’s 1984 result (he won by 18 points) or even Obama in 2008. Just over 2 points separated Trump and Harris.
@davidpnice @zleap @randahl

@MoiraEve @MisterMultiverse @zleap @randahl I still need the percentage so I can do the math and find out just how many Americans are morally bankrupt.

@MisterMultiverse @davidpnice Exactly. You need the percentage for finding solutions—For fighting the disinformation above all. @randahl @zleap

@davidpnice @MoiraEve @zleap @randahl my boss and coworkers, at my new and old job. Many of my neighbors. I'm in a blue state, but yikes it's too many. So disappointing and frustrating. I think so much about how I can reach them enough to make some difference and they don't hardly think at all. And they laugh about it and are so sure they're right.

@davidpnice @zleap @randahl Everyone who voted for Harris is complicit in genocide. As is everyone who voted for Trump.

And a lot of other stuff that you legitimize by voting too, like destroying the climate. Every party that is pro growth is anti planet and anti life, which is almost every party in the world.

There is never a morally perfect choice in voting. The lesser evil is still evil.

Trump voters are indefensible IMO. Not voting is just something I don't like personally

@skaphle @zleap @randahl And yet... Well, at least I guess you voted. Please don't tell me it was for Jill Stein.

@davidpnice @zleap @randahl Well I am German. I only tried to reach out to relatives in the US to vote for Harris.

The situation here is similar though. We have a choice between open fascists and democratic parties. When those basically say "we too promise things you won't get but you can unelect us in 4 years", I can understand people who are not convinced by that. It's an argument you can make to yourself (and I do), but not others. I wouldn't get out to canvas except for the left party.

@skaphle @zleap @randahl Oh, and anyone who didn't vote because the Democrats weren't doing enough for Gaza - true - would see by Netanyahu's glee at Typhoon Orange's election that things will get much worse there now.

@randahl
Erschreckend: im Umfeld, das auch aus vielen Leuten mit guter Schulbildung besteht, interessieren sich recht wenige wirklich für Politik und denken nicht über die Konsequenzen nach. Job, Freizeit, Urlaub, Auto, Sport sind wesentlich ranghöher eingeordnet. Sie wissen nicht, wie wichtig gerade jetzt Ihre Stimmen sind.
Auch da werden Zeitungsüberschriften und Schnellanalysen weitergegeben (Stichwort Heizungsgesetz, wo auf Nachfrage niemand Inhalte kannte).

@randahl Those are typical proportions in any modern democracy. In Mexico our Presidenta won with overwhelmingly with 60% of the vote, 30M voters, that makes up "only" 24% of the population. Remember children can't vote, in the US felons can't, some people won't... In Mexico the argument is used by the right to delegitimize a left-ish government, others de-legitimize democracy that way... Sometimes results don't align with our expectations. Maybe not throw the baby with the bath water?

@randahl I thought the voter turn out of eligible voters (not just registered) was around 65%.

And a little over half of those voted for Trump.

I think the 22% is disingenuous, because you count both children and non citizens.

@randahl

By the accounting method suggested on the wikipedia-page the turnout is estimated to be 63,2% for the 2024 election.

This is still crazy low and lower that 2020 when it was 69,9%.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_tu

@UlrikNyman @randahl it is higher than the turn out for this year's 'U'K General election.

@Jockstar @randahl But, that is not the comparison I would want to make

@UlrikNyman @randahl Thanks, and this begs the question why almost 4 million people gave up on democracy.

Agreed.

Though the native expression would probably rather be:

"Wer nicht wählt, ist Mitläufer."

"Mitläufer" means silent sympathizer, with a connotation of collaborator (people are likely to think of the 3rd Reich). The word for passenger would be "Beifahrer".

@randahl die Rechnung ist etwas krumm. Nimmt ja an dass jede:r nicht wahlberechtigte:r auf keinen Fall Trump gewählt hätte

@randahl I think the interesting question is: why didn't so many voters vote at all? Trump gained roughly one million less votes than in 2020, while Harris came up twelve million votes short, compared to Biden. In my opinion it's still a question of gender and race.
Twelve million didn't want to cast their vote for Trump, however they also didn't want to elect a black woman.
So, if the this election is a lesson for parties here, than it is unfortunately: don't nominate a woman for chancellor.

@agitatra @randahl
Yup, here in the USA don’t lead with an accomplished Black woman….

But, I’ll add Bill Clinton’s campaign focus:

“It’s the [perceived] economy, stupid!”

COVID-induced and corporate greed enhanced and perpetuated inflation made most American voters poorer.

Republicans did a phenomenal job of amplifying inflation and leveraging their historical perception that they make the economy great. It was propaganda, largely untrue.

But so what? It worked.

@JoeStewart @randahl I don't know, I mean how can anybody of any halfway right mind think that a guy who manged to ruin casinos ("the bank always wins", eeeh... not in a Trump casino) has any feasible plan for the economy? For me the argument: "I voted for him because of the economy" is thinly veiled for: "l don't think a woman, especially a black one, should be president.

@agitatra @randahl
I know. I’ve gone back and forth on that. I started from the POV that we’re a racist patriarchal society. Post voting polling indicates that voters didn’t know Harris. What? And they didn’t know Trump is a felon. What?

@JoeStewart
And apparently lots of people didn't even know that Biden wasn't on the ticket anymore.

I mean... seriously?

The google serches for Trump tariffs, Project 2025, immigration are going through the roof. After the election.

D'oh.

@agitatra @randahl

@ruedi @JoeStewart @randahl
I'd say voters should have to fill out a questionaire before voting and if they can't name at least the main candidates or have a basic understanding of their policies, they are sent to bed without food and ballot.

@agitatra @JoeStewart @randahl
I couldn't agree more.

Been saying for years that we need some kind of test for voters.

Should be a straightforward set of ten to twenty questions about candidates, politicians, policies, democracy, voting rights.

@randahl I think drawing conclusions is a bit early.They're still counting votes.That usually takes over a month after the election day, mostly because of the votes by email. I'm talking about a few millions of votes. It won't change the outcome, obviously.

@randahl

It's not 75 of 335, since not all of the 335 are eligible to vote.

Still bad enough.

@randahl while a compelling argument, there are 72 million children who legally cannot vote.

That leaves to 258 million people who are old enough to vote, but not necessarily legally.

You need to register. Many states do not allow felons to vote. And you can’t vote if legally incapacitated.

In 2022 there were 161 million people registered. Around 46%.

@randahl

The disastrous "results" of voter shaming might be an indicator that it's rather the candidates that need to be held accountable for sending good, specific and ethical messages about what they'll actually do.

Before election day. Repeatedly. Clearly. With bonus reminders of what happens when they try to extort a substantial, diverse selection of their voter base, believing that most of them would give in, last minute, on election day.

@randahl yesss, for the love of whatever god you believe in. VOTE!!! As someone who is in the US and still trying to come to terms with what the next four years looks like, the fact that so many of my fellow Americans sat this one out is baffling.

@randahl Trump did NOT get more votes than 2020, is just that approx 13 million people who voted for Biden, didn't show up to vote for Harris

@randahl adjust that to voting population and it is still chilling. Though less so

@randahl and irony is that around 40% total voted, not tha the winner had so low a % of the population. The winner was elected by "The VOTERS" not those with the franchise. It's the way it works in US.

@randahl Die Wahlen sind weder representaiv noch ist die Bundesrepublik Deutschland eine Demokratie des Volkes, sie ist eine Diktatur der Kapitalisten und die Wahlen ein Mittel uns Arbeiter das Gefühl von Mitbestimmung zu geben.

@fredy_pferdi
Also das ist ziemlich destruktiver Mumpitz.

Was ist dein Verbesserungs- bzw. Alternativvorschlag?

@randahl

@ruedi @randahl Wahlboykot! Organisation der Arbeitenden in den Betrieben und Nachbarschaften, Aufbau einer Einheitsfront bestehend aus allen wahren Demokraten, Progressiven und Revolutionäre durch die Vortruppe der Revolution. Alles machbar, wenn die Arbeiter in diesem Land endlich wieder eine Perspektive und ein Kampfpartei haben.

Die AfD und das dumme Bündnis Wagenknecht sind die einzigen, welche es durch plumpen Populismus schaffen, die rückständigen Teile der Arbeiterklasse anzusprechen und sind durch die Popularisierung von Marxismus zu besiegen. Es ist alles nur eine Frage der Organisierung.

Das Vertrauen der Massen im das Bürgerliche Wahlsystem ist so oder so am Ende (siehe Wahlbeteiligung), und es braucht keine absolute Mehrheit für eine Revolution (siehe Räterevolution in Russland).

@ruedi @randahl Wenn der Faschismus weiter erstarkt, dann bleit auch den demokratischsten Menschen in Deutschland bald nichts mehr anderes übrig, es ist nötig die Ökonomische Grundlage für den Faschismus ab zu schaffen, es riecht nicht nur zu sagen #niewiederfaschismus lel. Der #Kapitalismus ist das Problem (Faschismus ein Weg diesen in Zeiten der Kriese am laufen zu erhalten) Sozialismus ist der einzige Ausweg, weg von der Ausbeutung der Natur und der Arbeiterklasse und vorallem durch die Einführung einer Räterepublik die einzige wirkliche Demokratie für das Volk.

@randahl Note that in States local state and even country decides who get to vote and in what conditions. There is not universal federal right to vote.

@randahl yes, but 335 million isn't the number of voters. According to Statista site, the number of eligible voters (in 2022) was 161 million.

@Jockstar @randahl What was the registered voter number?

Is 46% of the eligible voters a mandate?

@randahl can you also tell the number of votes, harris has lost in different to biden years before? I didn't find it again ... We should learn from ...

@randahl Ok, but how does one encourage people like these citizens to vote? Why is the right so much more successful in mobilizing against the left/center, whereas it's so much harder to get the people to swallow the bitter pill and vote center/left because the most promising candidates is not super perfect enough for them?