I've been thinking about the Fediverse for a looooong time, since before it was called the Fediverse. I'll admit my thinking hasn't evolved much for much of that time. The basic structure of it has been clear for nearly 15 years.
But today (so far - it's only 8:30 AM here!) I've learned *three* new perspectives that have changed/improved the way I think about the Fediverse/Mastodon in subtle but important ways.
So. Much. Gratitude.
Since a number of folks asked what I learned yesterday, I wanted to pick this back up and share with the community that's giving me so much right now. So, a few brief threads (apologies to folks who don't like threads) of things I learned on the Fediverse yesterday:
TIL2/3: Many have said it, I'm going to say it, too: I miss Quote Tweets. I appreciate the thoughtful justification for not implementing them, but also disagree. My ideal would be
a quote tweet that points up
rather than Twitter's pointing down
because I think sometimes it's really important to contextualize or emphasize why you're boosting someone's post.
I think Quotations are coming, and I hope and believe that ultimately, the call isn't @Gargron's alone to make. @scottjenson has been advocating for designers & UX folk to take part, and I hope that structures emerge to make that not just possible, but pervasive.
In the meantime, @amirouche pointed me at this lovely pattern:
https://social.hyper.dev/@amirouche/109343002733668741
Basically, instead of QTing something, on Mastodon it's possible to reply to a post and then boost your reply.
That way, the visibility is the same as a Quote would have been, but with the interesting property that the OP doesn't get silenced/steamrolled, but the original post is still easily visible. More conversational, less adversarial.
Even if/when we get formal QTs, I like this pattern and will be using it where appropriate (it would be great to have a one-click mode and a name for this – does one exist? Any ideas?)
Thanks, @amirouche
ReplyBoosts - RBs!
ReplyQuotes - RQs!
@FloatingGhost @bmann @amirouche thanks! Is there a link that explains that? My intent was the opposite of terraforming, it was boosting a pattern that was shared with me.
For what it's worth, I strongly abhor gatekeeping. While I haven't been active, I was one of creators of the fediverse 14 years ago, and the only privilege I believe that confers is the responsibility to welcome, accommodate, and orient newcomers.
> a pattern
That is not exactly a pattern that is very common. It is possible to boost a reply. I believe it achieves the same as quote toot, while preserving the convo.
Theoretically, having threads / subthreads (with the ui/ux that I have in mind) should help people focus on building convos (instead of mere personal branding, or worse).
@amirouche @blaine @FloatingGhost @bmann tbh, I haven't tested it yet, but does boosting a reply show up as the reply and the previous message in other time lines? If not it is not the same thing since I want to boost the original message and add sentiment to it.
If it were to be implemented, would something along the lines of "Highlight" (or if there is room "Highlight This") work for the wording? It's not exactly the same as QT, but it is an action with (I think) a more positive connotation.
And yes, it would be interesting if displaying the box above and not below would make a difference.
amirouche@social.hyper.dev
@chillicampari Highlight is such a good word for this!
@chillicampari @blaine I wonder if ActivityPub could leverage the Web Annotation ontology to do some of that. In that ontology, the idea of a highlight is an annotation without a body - just pointing at a target. The annotation doesn't have to "own" the body or the target(s), but asserts that the body and target(s) are somehow related.
These are some interesting ideas here.
a quote tweet that points up
Here you mean, rearranging how quotes are displayed so the original post is listed above and more prominently?
@realcaseyrollins @amirouche yup! Subtle changes can have a huge impact on how we think of things; obviously, there would be some big questions around how it would work given federated systems' ability to change the rendered output, but I reckon something like it could be worth a try.
@blaine @realcaseyrollins @amirouche In terms of subtle changes, a "Disable QTs" option (either ad hoc for each post, or let a user set it for all posts) could help prevent the dunking problem.
@newfangl3d @blaine @realcaseyrollins @amirouche I think this is it exactly. I was never a Twitterer, so the QT thing is somewhat lost on me. But in line with the philosophy of consent here, why not make it an opt-in feature for those who want their toots to spread outside their own network?
@blaine @amirouche I think this pattern is greatly superior in terms of keeping the conversation together.
That function could be included in the UI*.
It should then automatically a) add your comment as a reply b) reboost the original toot and your reply *at the same time* so they stay together in the timeline. (The two could then even be displayed sort-of merged in the timeline.)
*as with Twitter's QT ("add a comment" among with the "yes, boost" confirmation).
@blaine @amirouche I've made a mockup illustrating my idea. Left, the boost dialog; right, possible view in timeline.
#meta #quotetweet #mastodon #boostreply
@blaine This is a citation in scholarship.
@blaine ...and if that's the intention (to boost a reply to a tweet vs. not being able to quote it), providing full context in a reply would be incredibly helpful. Otherwise, the viewer would see something that might or might not warrant checking out the full thread. I do wish it was easier to view threads inline (or through a pop-up vs. shooting into the rightmost column in the Advanced view). Is it protocol to make a new post and link off to the original post in question to act as a pseudo QP?
@blaine I don’t think this can replace QTs. When you boost a reply, the context is not visible on your followers’ timeline. Having to open the thread just to understand what you’re talking about is too disruptive for casual readers.
@zora I agree Just finding delight in new approaches.
@blaine OK, I'm going to try this; thank you! Can you explain how I can see the original post that someone replies to, generally? Replies float mysteriously and I can't figure out what they are connected to.
@SylviaKMiller anyone who wants to see the original would need to click through and scroll up, but I think the way that changes the relationship from punching down to pointing up is good. Hopefully more affordances can follow!
@blaine I just figured out how to see the original post! Click the three dots and choose "Expand this post." Yes, I agree with your view of the pointing up. Much better than having the response take over.
@SylviaKMiller @blaine Hmm, perhaps you could include “(Please Expand Post)” in your post when you do this. Eventually this would become PEP…
@SylviaKMiller @blaine Yeah, I wonder if there's a good emoji to say “expand this”. There's (takeout box)?
@blaine Thanks for sharing that tip; I aldo like this approach!
@blaine I hadn't thought about that. Initial reaction is I like it I think, for the reason you stated. It feels like this would keep the quote/boost as part of a conversation rather than a sideline.
@blaine retooting my own toots makes me feel weird inside in a way that QTs never did but I guess I'll get used to it after I've been here a while
@blaine what happens then if the original post is deleted? or if you are blocked by the author of the original post?
@tivasyk I think this is one of the great things about the reply mode; it kind of kills the ability to harass people by using QTs by preserving the power in the OP's hands, while giving the person boosting a way to be seen, too (vs. just replying).
@blaine yep, it's great! if one presumes that an author is always the good one and a commentor is always the one harassing.
everyone thinks they are not everyone.
still, regardless of presumptions, if ond only focusses on the technical side of the question: what happens to boosted replies if the orihinal post has been deleted or the commentor has been blocked?
@blaine I get the rationale but I mostly used quote tweets to say how brilliant things were.
@itaryan hard same. I'm sure I had lapses (hopefully all of the punching-up variety), but the thought of being mean to someone by hoisting their words up to mock them makes me feel ill.
@blaine I'm missing something fundamental here. What does the self boost do that doesn't happen already by just giving the reply Public visibility?
@rjrjr I'm convinced that replies don't show up in followers' Home feed, even with global visibility turned on. There are a couple of side-conversations on this thread, but empirically I know that there are *many* reply conversations by people I follow that are happening with global visibility, but I don't see the replies in my Home feed unless I'm mentioned or the post is boosted.